i was all excited to see this new plugin and saw it required iLok. i hate to not get it but that sucks you are requiring iLok now.

Individual dongles sucks I agree but iLok is different. Have you ever tried it?
I observed that many people after starting using iLok they start begging developers
about using this kind of copy protection. Recently we received a lot of requests about it.
I know that also other developers such NI (visit their forum) are receiving such requests.
In my opinion iLok it is the most convenient authorization system.
I have to say that it is much more convenient then our standard system.
Recently I changed computer and I was very frustrated with authorizing all my
software (especially hundreds of plug-ins).
It was such annoying thing to find all codes, serials, passwords and so on.
In this case I was thinking that cracked versions which not require any serial #
are much more convenient.
With iLok you just install the software and install drivers for your iLok on new computer
and you can have access to over 100 authorization immediately.

We had (at least in my opinion) and we will still have (at least I hope) user friendly policy.
We don't want to change our attitude with changing our copy protection system.
For example for sure we won't ask you to buy our software again if you loose or
broke your dongle. Sometimes people contacted us because they lost their laptops with
all info, about their plug-ins and it wasn't a problem to generate for them new codes
So why in case of iLok it will be a problem?
Of course we don't generate asset for unknown user or for one user 5 times during one week
but I can imaginne that during some realistic period of time you can asked
about 2nd authorization so what is the disadvantage of this solution.

Warm regards from foggy Poland
Antoni Ozynski

Well, if all new products of yours are requiring iLok, you have lost a long time registered user.

I have little problem with using a dongle, but the iLok driver has been hell for years on many PCs that I have used -- the problems with the Pace driver and PCs is legendary. It has caused BSODs and crashes (which has been reported by many, MANY users). With subsequent updates, it has gotten better but still causes problems.

The dongle that has not caused me any problems is by Syncrosoft and is used by Steinberg, IK Multimedia and Vienna Symphonic Library (VSL)

If you guys went with Syncrosoft, I would still support your company. As it stands now (by using Pace iLok) for you future programs, unfortunately, your company and my money will soon part ways.

I wish you guys the best of luck in the future but I will not support Pace.

Sorry.

Was about to ask whether Synchrosoft could be used instead of iLok but it seems, from David's post, that this is not the case. I don't know about iLok but Syncrosoft works very well plus, apart from the issue mentionned by David, it would have been smarter to use this protection that Steinberg already use...in order to avoid ending up with all USB ports busy!!!

Too bad PSP will be using iLoc protection. That means I won't be getting any of those new sweet looking plugs :-(

Well, I would also choose synchrosoft over iLok.

But I am not holding my breath at the moment as PSP probably uses iLok due to the RTAS/Digi stuff.

I have one lying around, will try now, hope it will behave more like my syncrosoft or XSkey than the pace C/R protection I know from former times.

best

Why not to have the choice for iLok or Syncrosoft?
As a Cubase SX user, for sure I could be happier to be able to drop new licences on that key.
Good luck anyway with that new way to protect your nice works...

RW

We were thinking about it but in may opinion iLok is much more universal also it is much easir to manage authorizations from diffrent vendors.

Antoni Ozynski

Hi Antoni!

I am proud owner of all of your plugins. One question. Is this really final that you won't release Neon HR with normal (like previous) registration procedure? I would absolutely buy it but iLok is something I would like to avoid. Because of Pace driver...

your faithfull customer,

Ari-Pekka Laukkanen
APart-Studio
Finland

Antoni, I already have the syncrosoft dongle for Halion and Cubase SX so I could live with that but I will never put PACE on my machines.

What's the problem with ILOK, BTW

What's the problem with ILOK, BTW

It's an old article but it says it all:

iLok problems

It is 4 years old articale (March 2002) and it is about old PACE copy protection system. It is not about iLok.

Antoni Ozynski

InterLok and iLok both install the kernel-level driver on the machine. It is this kernel driver that has caused problems.

I was still getting problems with iLok and InterLok working on my machine and tech support could not find a real reason but to say that it must be incompatibility with my Midi devices and motherboard configuration.

I still got BSODs, crashes and a complete memory dump. I even had a problem where Pace did not like the copy protection of another plug-in and that caused havoc with the system as well! When I uninstalled the Pace plug-in and then manually deleted the Pace registry items, the problems went away. As an experiment, I reinstalled the plug-in again and the problems returned.

Even if the Pace products were not 100% at fault (who knows how all the interactions between software and hardware behaves), those particular plug-ins were a major contributing factor to system instability. Practically everything else on my systems got along together without problems when Pace was not involved.

Over the years, Pace has improved their copy protection compatibility immensely but problems still occur for some people. Worrying about possible copy protection problems is not what I want to deal with when I am at my DAW. Because of how bad it was for me (expecially at the height of frustration a couple years ago when the crashes were really frequent), I have vowed to stop supporting Pace and any product that utilizes Pace. Even if Pace finally works out all problems and becomes totally stable, I will not support them because of past experience. Call me wary.

I finally uninstalled all Paced products and found alternative products that work with a more compatible protection scheme. When it comes to dongles, I have yet to have a single problem with Syncrosoft as I currently use some of Vienna Symphonic Library's new instruments, IK Multimedia's Philharmonik and CSR, and Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist 2, HALion 3 and HALion String Edition 2. With Syncrosoft, I have had no problems with license transfers and no computer crashes. Zero. Zilch.

On a positive note, though, I just want to say how visually stunning your new plugins look. They look utterly amazing. I am sure they sound amazing as well. You guys sure know how to make great-sounding plug-ins!

Cheers

Well, I Also think that Pace is not something I would like to deal with, if I could really avoid it.
On another computer the stupid pace stuff is in a way corrupted, that it will not let disk repair (OSX system maintenance) repair permission etc. What to do - with pace on the lowest level of the HD what can one do - reinstall the system? For repair of HD and risk that nothing that is pace protect works anymore (it is a university computer - so I am not the admin, I cannot request new strings etc.)

Pace can be summarized in one sentence: It sucks!

And isn't it the case that Pace says the end user is not our customer, so we will not support it. Great, so why should I have that stuff on my computer - and your support can be excellent, but you will not be able to deal with pace tuff, because you simply did not program it.

I do not know if Synchrosoft is that much better - I have that thing since 3 years now and since about some time it seems to work reasonably here. I would not say that it is as solid as xskey, and the end user support might be the same.

But on the other hand I find it disgusting how many people use software they did not buy - this is really alarming. Of course it should not be my problem to deal with cp then - but well - as we are members of the same society I think we are somehow responsible for that as well.

best

Neon sounds like a dream eq even in the simpler version that I am able to try out. Normally I would have bought the HR version direct upon publication but it does not feel right to get an ilok just to use for one plug, even if it is a dream eq.

I will have no other use for ilok and already have a syncrosoft (for SX3) device taking up USB space. I probably will think twice about this but to be honest it's a bit disappointing.

hmmm,

the syncrosoft dongle you also just have for one software? :-)

The newest Syncrosoft drivers seem again tobe a nightmare - if you look at the VSL forum.
Until now the iLok did not make to many problems - hope it stays like that (- do not believe in that thoug).

Personally I always preferred dongles over stupid C/R copy protection like that of NI - but the old one from PSP was really nice. I do not know how much the dongle will help PSP to avoid warez, I hope that it pays off.
It would be nice if they would let the user choose which donlge (as yes, iLok is Digi land and more and more of the rest is Syncrosoft - Steinberg, Scarbee, VSL, Arturia, Korg - and I would rather compare PSP to Scarbee and VSL than to Digi). But I think support for different dongles may be unrealisitic - from the fiscal point of view.

best

i preferred the old method you used for CP, and with the registration system you started, finding all my codes became a breeze [even the installers]. i was very proud of your company with that system, just so eloquently done.

but i refuse to buy into iLok or any plugins that use them. sorry, if you put out a version w/o iLok protection i will pony up the cash for the product, otherwise the more products you put on it, the fewer i will be buying from you.

i work in many industries and use software from so many vendors... ONLY the audio industry it seems needs to bother with iLok. what does that say about it all? that engineers are far more crooked than other industries? i have spent tens of thousands on software, sometimes thousands in a year on what i use. i do not expect to be punished as a legitimate user with iLok because of the paranoia they have sold to developers about how much software is pirated.

and yes, it seems cracked versions do work out better than dongled, although cracks of other methods seem less stable for some reason. maybe you could just put out a crack of you own software... i will buy it off you.

I know nothing about iLok or any other dongle so I don't know if it would be a problem on my DAW or not.

- BUT -

I have to admit that I am wary of putting anything on my DAW that might pose even the slightest problem. I want my DAW to run as clean, mean and fast as possible w/o any s/w issues at all.

So, I am quite hesitant to buy NeonHR for the dongle reason alone. I've demoed the standard vs. and would've bought it last week but since I usually work at 88.2 or 96k, it wouldn't see much service or I'd have to change my work methods.

I'd rather have HR but as of right now, I can't decide whether or not I'm willing to risk inheriting a bunch of problems...

Hmm, slowly feel I sound like a iLok-fan or promoter, but I think this statement is simply false!

In Highend 3D software (Maya, Softimage, Houdini) you have donlge since years! If I am not mistaken Photoshop CS2 also requires a dongle, think it is even iLok. We have a 3D tracking system here - how is the software protected (despite it needs a not too affordable hardware) - a dongle.

So parannoia is not only within the music softo! And in 3D or video-market - how many really small major players are left? In audio we still have some - I prefer sticking five dongles on my Mac for every PSP plugin before seeing them bought by Digi or such a company.

Maybe it could be worse :-)
best

I ordered the Neon/NeonHR/MasterComp bundle today, in spite of the iLok protection, which I also hate. I will say that I was very dismayed to see that PSP had gone to iLok, and I hope that at some point it will be dropped and these plugins will use the type of protection that PSP has always used. Much more convenient and pleasant in my opinion. I really hate that iLok hanging off my keyboard, and the extra extensions that I must install into my system.

In all honesty, I would not have bought these plugins if I hadn't been able to take advantage of the discount offerred to current PSP plugin owners.

MasterComp sounds quite good, I will definitely be using this quite a bit. However, Neon HR *and* the plain Neon are completely unusable on my dual G4 800. As in CPU overload error messages. I'm going to work on this a bit and try them out in all my various DAW's, but so far I can't get any version of Neon to work in PT LE 6.9 or DSP-Quattro. It looks good though. :-)

i dont believe photochop requires a dongle... and plenty of stable cracks of that for those who dont want to bother with it if it does... i have no software on my machine that requires a dongle. and intend on keeping it that way.

from adobe's site:
Several Adobe and Macromedia products include activation technology that helps prevent unauthorized copying of the software.

Activation is an interactive representation of the license agreement between Adobe and its valued customers. Activation protects the intellectual property and innovation at the heart of the software industry.

Adobe is committed to eliminating unauthorized use of its software in a manner designed to have a minimal impact on licensed users. Versions of Adobe software that incorporate activation are provided under the same license as those not including activation. Read the FAQ.

What happens during activation?
When a customer installs an Adobe software product that requires activation, the customer is asked to choose the method of activation (Internet or phone).

The license information is sent to Adobe through the means selected by the user, and once the license is verified, the product is activated and available for use. Read further details on the activation process.

Activation does not collect, transmit, or use any personally identifiable information or hinder licensed users' ability to use the software the way they always have under the Adobe product license agreement.

Take a step-by-step tour to see how simple and quick it is to activate a software product.
Adobe welcomes your feedback regarding the activation process. Please share your thoughts with us.


also, Altiverb CAN use iLok but was nice enough to also offer acivation for those of us who do not wish to contaminate our OS's with extra drivers.

SonicAlbert,
Pay very close attention to your plug-in sample rate. To run high and max res in FAT mode you need to increase your sample rate. You then should change the sample rate of your soundcard to match. This will result in a delay, of course, which doesn't matter because it is meant for mastering.
If doing 44.1kHz and running in max res you should change your DAW's plug-in sample buffer rate to 2048. I was having the same problem as you with CPU consumptions until I figured this out.

I second the comments made above by those who are put off buying Neon HR *purely* because of the iLok protection.

I take the points by PSP about the relative convenience of the iLok, but for me this is outweighed by the fact that:

* I'd prefer not to tinker with my DAW setup

* I object to paying for the key

* I can't even demo the software without paying for the key

* I don't want to use up USB ports

* Quite aside from the cost, it's inconvenient for me to have to purchase (and wait for) two separate products - the key and the plugin. I like software FX because I get instant delivery and gratification. Needing to get a key makes this impossible.

* Perhaps most importantly from PSP's point of view, the iLok protection on the HR version actually STOPS me from buying the normal Neon, because I don't like the thought of purchasing a product that feels 'crippled'.

I really urge you to reconsider your policy with this. I love your products, and one of the attractions of PSP VSTs for me has been the ease of purchase and registration.

Iain

I like this.

The good folks at PSP were kind enough to refund my money when I was having such problems with Neon. I also noticed that the Pace extensions did take a performance hit on my machine, and therefore didn't want to use MasterComp/Pace either for that reason. It's possible that with faster machines the hit will be small enough that it won't be noticable, but on my dual 800 G4 there was a subtle performance hit and DAW applications took *much* longer to launch. DSP-Quattro took silly long, and normally it launches fast. But again, on a faster machine this might not be noticable.

The sad part about this for me was that while I could use MasterComp on my computer as far as CPU usage, I didn't want to pollute my whole machine with Pace and deal with a dongle for that one plugin. This is an instance where the so called copy "protection" actually cost PSP a sale.

I like Alphajerk's suggestion about offering activation as an option for those that want it. I'll be first in line to buy MasterComp if that happens.

I will buy Neon HR if there's an alternative to iLok but have decided to not buy it with iLok.

Same here...

antoni;

With all respect, I googled these up. Both are from may 2006!
web page

web page


We all have spent time trying to minimize background services in windows; Is the dongle going to load on boot up and steal memory??

I found this for you to read...
web page


I'm on the fence(can't decide) on this one, I really want to try neon HR! This is a vexing problem(piracy) and I guess there is no elegant solution.

Since my original post above, I have actually got an iLok to use Waves plugins.

I didn't need to install any intrusive drivers to use this successfully; Windows briefly installed an iLok driver when it detected the iLok for the first time, and that was that.

Would it be different for PSP? Are there different ways of implementing iLok? Do some plugins require more extensive/intrusive driver installations? I'm curious.

iain m, well, here (on Mac and iLok not installed before) it was pretty smooth besides that I did not want to allow MacOSX to go to the internet - so I had to manually download it from my internet partition. after installation and copying the licenses to the dongle, everthings smooth - the iLok made less trouble than the syncrosoft or even the xskey (well, for that I do not have the latest drivers installed) until now.

So basically, if your Wave iLok is on registered iLok.com (I think for Waves this is not necessary as they have their own management system) would expect that it is a smooth ride. Or you get a second iLok, register it and use it for the PSP plugs - as the drivers are already installed this should be smooth to.

best

Thanks steff for the info. Appreciated!

I must admit that I was very pleasantly surprised by how easy it was to use the iLok with Waves, so this has given me second thoughts about Neon.

But I am still a bit wary of needing an iLok just for a demo, in case it does mess up the system. Nonetheless, I guess it would be better to mess it up with a free demo than find out it was messed up only after paying for the full product! ;-)

It shouldn't mess your system in any way.

Antoni

I for my part like the iLok system. It so much easier to manage all the authorisations, especially when working on different computers, OS platforms and locations. I actualy wished all my plugs were on iLok.
Never had any issues...

Best regards,
vladoc

You might want to try new version of Neon (1.1) - it benefits from variable plug-in buffer size introduced in PT 7.0 - the CPU load is drastically reduced, but you need to set high hardware buffer size in PT settings. However, it requires PT 7.0...