Some Internet discussions seem to extend into eternity and sometimes it gets to the point where you may ask yourself if the other part can read and understand properly. At times like that, the gap between the disscussing parts often lies in the values and principles the parts choose to honor when taking their position in the discussion. If theese values and principles is not shared by the other discussing parts, the discussion will never end in an agreement. The only thing that remains to say is: OK, you see it that way, and I see it this way, and that's fine. As I understand you, B5 this is what you want to do. But you also add new gasoline to the fire by comparing the perfectly normal compressor we discuss here (with a basic functionality shared by every other compressor in the universe) with the very, very special and uniqe mastering tool Har-Bal. This comparison is not intellectually honest in any way.

Mike Cressey: If VW does all you want, then MC is redundant. But the MC functionality and sound is not included in VW. It's true that one can be used without the other but in fact they complete each other just fine and make a killer duo on your master out. Since you have MC already, dont miss to try it out.

If this discussion had been about VW it had been much easier for me to understand since VW is a very special plugin. I think that the best way to learn how to use a compressor (which is generic knowledge) is to get a hardware unit with knobs and spend time working with it and listening carefully. The use of compressors is probably one of the hardest things to understand and master in audio production since it can be used in so many ways and for so many purposes. It's a bit like dancing, everyone has a way of their own that makes them happy. From this point of view, you guys are a bit unfair to Mateusz - there is no way he or anyone else can be specific on how you should use a compressor on your audio material in order to be pleased with the result and it takes a lot of time to put together a publication that covers even only the most common usages of a compressor. Time that plugin buyers would have to pay for. Seems like a much better deal to leave PSP with plugin programming peace and get the generic knowledge elsewhere.

And yes, peace to all involved. I have for sure not written anything with the purpose to upset anyone nor to write myself into any kind of mastering guru context, I have no such claims.

Over and out,

Hopefully Mateusz is no longer wasting his time with this one. I think he answered fairly and pretty much stated they'd keep it in mind on future projects.
As far as- "But you also add new gasoline to the fire by comparing the perfectly normal compressor we discuss here (with a basic functionality shared by every other compressor in the universe) with the very, very special and uniqe mastering tool Har-Bal. This comparison is not intellectually honest in any way."
I was refering to Support and Instruction.
Har-Bal goes to great effort to help you understand the use of thier product- and even work out step by step instructions for using with other Mastering Apps, etc.
Those guys are the cream of the crop.

PSP has great products. Just wish they'd be a little more supportive of the Average Joe.

Thanks for the Replies......

B5

VW is much harder to wrap your head around but reading the manual did a great job of it for me.... although the saturation side can still be confusing with the ceiling on the front...

IMHO, PSP and HarBal should never be used in the same sentence when talking about mastering. They are leagues apart...

BTW, the owner's manual for any of the cars that I've ever owned never gave any instructions whatsoever about how to drive. That's what Driver's Ed. and a permit are for...

B5, if Har-bal did not provide good information about their tool no one would be able to use it properly since it's a totally new approach that not a single one of the presumptive users has any experience with. No generic knowledge to fall back on = great need for documentation.

I record original songs & I make CDs that I sell. I've been recording for many years but I still consider myself a hobbyist. I bought MC before I knew exactly what I was going to do with it, because I like PSP products & I like to support these guys.

>Mike Cressey: If VW does all you want, then MC
> is redundant. But the MC functionality and
>sound is not included in VW.
What attracted me to the thread was the same thing that B5 asked about in the first post, and it's not clearly answered for me. Isn't VW just a compressor/limiter? Isn't MC another one? What's the difference? When would you use one, when would you use another? Does MC replace VW? Hence I asked about a good white paper, and here were are again :-)

>They are completely different plug-ins with
>different sound capabilities and features.
This response even confused me more.

MC, I would put it like this:

Use MC for compression and VW as a coloring/warming limitier.

MC is single band and can do limiting but specializes in compression.

VW is multiband and can do compression but is more oriented towards limiting and warming (than MC).

When you want each of them is up to you and what you want to achieve. I described a good starting point for using them together on the master out strip above. This is probably one of the most common ways of using them. Sometimes I treat guitars, drums, keyboards and vocals with VW on track level to add more punch and even some compression. Listen to your tracks and decide what you want to do with them, try out a plug and see if it does what you want.

When you get new gear there is always a trial and error period, you go trough it and afterwards you know when you like to use the gear and how.

This is how you learn and - it is supposed to be fun. If you don't think it is, maybee you should consider having someone else to do it. I don't mean to sound patronising here, this is just the way I think most of us learn to use our audio tools.

I would add here that while VW was designed to add warmth (color), MC's goal is to be as transparent as possible. That's why MC is marketed toward Mastering engineers - we (usually) don't want to add color to a mix that has already been painstakingly perfected by the mix engineer. That being said, the VW does a great job of adding just a touch of "character" to sterile mixes while keeping max levels in check (limiter).

The point here is that when you need some compression but don't want it to be heard, you use MC. Even still, it takes time tweaking and carefully listening in order to find just the right settings to get the compression you need w/o audibly affecting the mix.

Hope this helps...